https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UynG_jIJNrs ˧

Inhaltsverzeichnis dieser Seite Global Village Conference 1993    Building Bridges, example Joseph Smyth    Need to find public Impact location - city hall    Global Village 1995    Mallorca Conferences 1993 and 1994    Tony Gwilliam (and Chinese Village story)    Back to Global Village Conference and the Mothercity idea    Global Village 96 and 97 / ECTF 96 and The problematique of Telework    Global Village 97 - Kim Veltman    Retreat 1995 and the peace Village story    Global Village defined by Knowledge & Culture Center    The Mljet Challenge    CULTH    The Shift of 1999 and the Emerging of Our Collaboration    ECOVAST    OEKONUX and the Open Source Paradigm    Summarizing

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	0:01
	okay let me just check if I have enough space on my computer uh because I should but uh who
	0:08
	what you never
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	know yeah I'm fine
	0:21
	okay I am Andrew kowas this is math for wisdom a meeting with France Narada
	0:29
	pioneer of the global Villages movement uh this is a continuation of his uh life story
	0:36
	as a Visionary of global Villages and where we left off was he had just founded uh give uh his laboratory in
	0:46
	Vienna Austria yeah so uh as I said the idea
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	was to create a new type of institution that would be an intermediary between
	0:58
	scientific research and uh and experiments practical development
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	you know that this uh the whole thing with with Douglas angelart was that uh
	1:09
	such an institution uh did not exist in Europe either you are in theory or you are in
	1:16
	practice and uh and I was very much opposed to this separation I said uh a
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	good theory is uh is always uh a result of uh practical activities and learning
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	and so uh I don't see a point where there should be a specialization between people who go for uh uh writing books
	1:41
	and and papers and and others who do practical developments and uh so that
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	very much had a a kind of relation to my to my political past you know so what I
	1:55
	what I was describing before um I saw it as a ation with different means I saw it
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	as um not just like a collection of wise people that are enlightened and they
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	they are uh kind of sort of spreading Truth uh but I I rather saw it as a as a
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	collector for uh for evolving uh truths
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	about our future so uh and The Collector should be multifaceted it should it should uh it should have
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	access to a lot of perspectives and it should be uh embedded in Practical
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	development ˧
 

Global Village Conference 1993

	so so well how do you do that how do you bring this out U
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	[Music] um I had uh uh as I said many speeches and
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	one of them was uh to a group of Architects and uh the the the the guy
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	who who organized that speech uh he was um um interested in getting the
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	uh winning the competition for a plan Institute on the Technological
	3:16
	University on the relation between um architecture and information
	technology
        so architecture spatial planning and information technology 
        and of course he said it is weird
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	you know uh I feel we Architects are planning with  geographic information
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	systems and computer aided design and whatever you you you see here but we're
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	planning for a future that is obsolete so why don't we organize a
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	conference um that uh that focuses on this future view of the age of
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	telecommunication as we we uh we we call Ed uh architecture and and and and City
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	Planning in the age of telecommunication and then he said um um
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	I would call it Global Village ...
        I said really are you daring enough to use that term 
        I love it very much and so yes so
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	it came about you know uh so I said of course you know  my dream is about
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	Villages and uh at the same time we organizing that conference 
        in the heart of uh the Technical University the
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	um okay let's let's let's do it um let's call it Global Village and uh and that
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	was very interesting at that time there was there was like a um how you call a cartel of of uh
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	corporations that ran Austria telecommunication market so to say there
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	there were the the Four Sisters Sean Shar I catel and cap and they uh and
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	they had uh they had a kind of sort of close cooperation something unimaginable
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	today in a world of of prescribed competition you know but they they kind
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	of sort of uh they coordinated their action and they had they had also a
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	meeting of the of the public relations people and interestingly enough um they
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	liked my idea there was uh a person like Peter kraic from Ericson sh who said uh
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	um yeah I I feel this is a very powerful idea that we as the whole industry of
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	telecommunication we we are changing the world and he said I've been to Epcot uh
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	experimental community of tomorrow and and things like that and uh I would like to bring that out uh and and so and so
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	we we we had access to immediately to all the four major corporations and
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	although we created a a tinest conference at at the Technological
	6:05
	University they were willing to to see this as something important and uh I
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	said okay this is not just a conference this is a laboratory so uh we make a a
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	telecooperation laboratory uh and make it part of the conference we uh so people can walk in
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	there and see how people will live and work in the 21st century and U and so uh we really managed
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	especially to get Alcatel to do a lot of Investments uh in u u using uh the the
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	the wide area network that that was just that was 1993 you know that was just in
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	its infancy uh the the the fiber optics and things like that and we say okay we
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	have a lot of applications where people can uh locally work together like an
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	architect and a house technician so let's make a laboratory for telec
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	Corporation and let's have these people far apart in reality and let's show how
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	how things will be in the future that they can work better together than if they were sitting beside each other
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	because through the computer the interaction could be more professional more deep and uh and and and and more
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	precise so that that uh actually that was revolutionary at that
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	time you know we we we really really set up things that did not exist
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	yet so that was my idea of the laboratory and and and of course I could invite a lot of people also from America
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	with this uh uh with this idea that we get some some uh I should I say uh
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	funding from the tourist board and things like that and and also this was a paid conference and so uh and uh and uh
	8:03 ˧

Building Bridges, example Joseph Smyth

	so I also tried to bring together the European and the American Spirit you
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	know that that  to match these two ... before that I had an
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	encounter in in in in uh I met a lot of very very interesting
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	people in in in the USA and one of them was Joseph Smyth who was an architect uh
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	and he had a practice in Thousand Oaks in Los Angeles and he was drawing uh and
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	I hope we can we can put this picture in the video he was drawing uh a satellite map he he invited
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	me to his office uh and um he said uh here I am uh in Los Angeles which is the
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	most auto - focused city in the world and uh he he he he said I'm going to show
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	you the present and the future of Los Angeles and U and actually what he did
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	was to show me a satellite image of Los Angeles all gray and brown uh all sealed
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	parking lots and and and everything full with with cars so this is a City built
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	for the cars and it was of course uh um changed intentionally to that but we
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	we're suffering from that now and so he said now imagine a different future
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	where we have dense uh pedestrian oriented clustered communities all over
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	Los Angeles like like like a a valley of villages you
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	know so the Valley of the Angels becomes a valley of villages again connected by
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	public transportation and and of course telecommunication would really help a
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	lot so people don't have to commute that much so um that was that was the the
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	symbol I chose this as the as the uh how should I say as the representation it
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	was very important for me um I learned uh that imagination is is a is a key
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	factor in in uh changing the world or even in in in uh exploring it I I talked
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	about science fiction uh before but uh to have this this tangible imagery of
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	future uh possibilities uh I think it is is very powerful and
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	and I was always looking for the most uh radical and truthful expressions in
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	imagery I I also felt this was this was something that brought us into this trouble if there was not this uh
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	American movies uh featuring the single family home all the time uh which which
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	uh conveyed a certain kind of American Dre uh which which had to do with
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	Suburbia and and uh all the amenities that you have by having your big garage
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	and your big fridge and what you know this is this is this is also conveyed by
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	imagery so um I I I thought uh it is it
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	is very important to not just uh act in words but also in how should I say in
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	artistic visualization and and uh and again this
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	conference was uh very rich in people and uh uh we we even create a book out
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	of that um don't want to go into details but to ˧

Need to find public Impact location - city hall

	11:44
	cut the long story short when the conference had ended this companies came
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	to me and they said uh or they they invited me to their to their meeting and I said we will never do this again you
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	you you made us invest a lot of money for a few students you better care that
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	we get more public visibility I mean we still like the idea um uh but uh but uh
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	this was this was something that uh cost us a lot of money and and and and and
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	that did not that did not really uh pay well back you know so so U um after this
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	first conference uh and after this book um we had to look for a solution with my
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	organizers they had relations to the Vienna City Hall and uh we wrote a
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	letter to the mayor of Vienna which was really interesting Helmut Sil and he gave them this letter to his uh to his
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	planning department Han swoda uh and and uh and we yes we we we uh received a
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	positive uh uh response from the city of Vienna
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	we can do Global Village in the Vienna City Hall that was that was in 1995 and ˧

Global Village 1995

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	we even got the the the best room in the city hall large room and uh and the
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	second conference uh was uh how should I say uh it was a little
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	bit too small for this big room uh but uh but I think uh um we had uh we had a
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	lot of develop velopments which were very interesting we introduced electronic Cafe to Vienna with a with a
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	with a vienes cafe cfin they they put computers in their like a cyber cafe
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	cyber cafe yeah uh so uh and and and we also we also had this this public
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	presence and uh and what year was this this was um 1995 and and Jo Joseph smi's
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	Maps were the the were the logo then this was this was possibly the very
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	first year where the worldwide web became known actually that was the exact
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	timing yeah we we we had worldwide web just came out of its infancy had
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	developed for two years or so but at that time it was ready to be something to show be shown as where you could get
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	you know access from your home let's say yes yes yes and and uh and that was part
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	of the success so so uh that was uh uh
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	1995 and uh really I could I could elaborate what what happened in the meantime and and just to add that the
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	other one I think it was in 1993 you said was really um I think before mobile
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	phones had had much of a presence uh and and uh before like you saying people had
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	been connected to the internet so yeah but we did it so even then it was uh you know you were pursuing these ideas and
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	uh yeah yeah ˧
 

Mallorca Conferences 1993 and 1994

	and then was uh in between um there was this interesting uh um
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	invitation so um after the conference I went with my coworker to the European
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	Community Tork Forum in mayorca in 1993 and we went there two days earlier
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	and uh um the the thing that we did not know at the time is that uh the Balearic
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	government so to say um they planned for
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	uh very ambitious uh futurist uh uh
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	project uh of course they were pretty rich from tourism and and they could
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	afford to do that um that was uh named Park bat so when we arrived uh we uh we
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	we talked to this to this Mastermind Andre font of the of the uh balar
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	government who organized the Tor conference and he he told us about his plans and of course I said very
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	interesting and um he said we have assigned uh uh University uh we we have
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	assigned so to say beside the existing um uh University of the balic islands
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	ueb we have assigned a two square kilometer area which is uh a thinker
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	owned by the government uh to become a a kind of
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	landscape canvas for designs and developments of the future and we
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	invited about 12 or 15 architectural practices from around the world and
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	among them very very famous uh Architects like Norman Foster Richard
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	Rogers Skidmore Maryland Owens and and and KN and and and and so on and so
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	on uh and uh and so after this Tork
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	conference which was interesting enough in itself uh I got the invitation to be part of the jury and come back to
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	mayorca uh on a on a paid base and uh and I was really
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	U for a moment I was so lucky yeah to be with these Minds Like Richard lenberg
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	and who started the T info Zone and so on so I was suddenly in this uh in this
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	uh top uh group of the world uh that that uh that really concern itself with
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	thinking about these questions and uh so that was also uh
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	material from which I could uh kind of sort of uh draw uh ideas and invitation
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	for the Vienna event and uh and uh of course
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	also um I did in the meantime also traveling new
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	travels through the United States and uh and I Got U I made ˧

Tony Gwilliam (and Chinese Village story)

	18:13
	another uh I made another uh how should I say
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	uh acquaint me with uh with a Visionary
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	architect somebody who is even who was even closer or or how should deeper in
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	in my view that was Tony William and uh
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	Tony was um sitting in a garden in ohigh and uh somebody pointed me to him I
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	don't know who it was and I I I I I I visited this old he was already white
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	bearded and looked like a wise monk you know and Tony also showed me his
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	drawings and uh they were not as spectacular uh bir I
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	view as as Joseph's and he was not dealing with uh villages but he was
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	dealing with uh like a global settlement and he was he was just analyzing its
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	structure he was a student of bmin Fuller and uh and he he had this uh he
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	had this idea that uh we have uh increasingly our our our habitat is in
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	in in bedded in fields of communication transportation and so on and and he
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	focused on the idea very in interesting of the House of
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	the later on an architect developed a concept called
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	unprivate house and and Tony's concept was not the unprivate house house but a
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	semi-private house so he had this idea that uh if we bring our mind home yeah
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	that the title of the book was bring your mind home we bring our mind home uh our our
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	houses uh can be anything they can be uh
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	a place of of many trades like the old home Industries yeah and uh and we would
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	have a new structure where each and every house would display the the
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	engagement of their inhabitants to a kind of public Greenway and so it would be the natural
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	state of of life would be the the Flur that that that that looks the at the at
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	the front side of the houses and what's going on there every house has a kind of sort of public uh uh I ˧
 

	(Andrius) - I want to jump
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	in and say where I experience that um I had a friend Shu Hong juu U and uh in
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	about 1997 I think I had the opportunity thanks to him um we had been graduate
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	students together uh to stay with his family in a Chinese uh small town in
	21:18
	China and so these were um this was a peasant town that had been built by The Peasants you know they were all into and
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	so um it meant that um they would there was completely no zoning so but they
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	would build five story high buildings on each side and every um how every family
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	extended family would have a stairwell that would go up those five stores and
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	they would inhabit I think like 10 rooms 
        let's say in all but as you walk down that long Street um there were these
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	very wide sidewalks and on the sidewalk everyone was working there business you
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	know so it might be that they're dying some rugs let's say or they might um you
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	know be sorting out some kind of a grains let's say 
        or whatever they're doing but they're doing it on this
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	sidewalk that might be like I don't know eight meters or 
        something you know or 12 meters was very wide and then on the
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	first floor would be their business so like in our house 
        the first floor was a pharmacy the back room was where women
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	would give birth you see and so and then the second third fourth fifth 
        floors was where the family would live so it was
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	amazing uh and it was also amazing exciting 
        that there was no zoning so next to us I think they were selling
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	gasoline from barrels let's say and then there was a restaurant
        maybe next to that you know where they had like open flames
        and they had a children's n you
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	know Nursery let's say you know it was all it was all next together
        but you could see this life of the
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	village actually actually people were aware of what they what they're doing
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	and they did not need the security regulations 
        because they were just wise enough to to deal well and just a
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	complete the picture was that uh in the street there 
        was no notion of left side and  right hand side so there was just
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	this constant merge of traffic uh people walking you know cars driving uh many
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	many bicycles or Rick Shaws you know all merging in this ˧



        constant so what what what what really
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	fascinated me was that Tony he separated the function of the street from the
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	function of the walkway and he said the street actually 
        the street can go to the underground or to the backyard and we
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	miniaturized means of transportation they're automated they're self-driving H they they they find their ways so um
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	each house and he called that the MEWS that is a word from
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	London the the aristocratic class had uh uh in the in the back side of the house
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	that the horse stables for the guests so this were the Muse and
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	he said Tony was born in nothing he was a real still in all these years United
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	States a distinguished English speaker British uh speaker and he he he used
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	that term uh the Muse to to uh M WS uh
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	to describe this uh kind of uh support that the house gets from the side you
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	know and so um when whenever you order something or you have to go to airport
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	or something like that you take the mini taxi and you go 
        through the tunnels or service ways and uh and the service ways
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	are basically hexagonal they they they they they and and the and the and the
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	walkways they are basically trigonal 
        so that is like a geometric pattern that he
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	that he imagined instead of the rectangular grid uh and he said uh he he
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	showed how beautiful this this could overlap and uh and uh and then he
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	focused really on describing also the variety of of of not only trades but but
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	but activities that that uh come back to the house yeah he he he was uh he was uh
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	imagining a world where uh we don't need specialized schools and universities
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	where we all connected and and and our house becomes our primordial body uh so
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	to say of course we travel but but but but the house itself is uh is is is uh
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	is a is a is a place to to work to be creative uh and it it it is uh it is in
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	a way also a way to connect to people um so I I elaborate on this because it
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	shows again how different the Visions are and that from various perspectives
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	you get a new bit of Truth you know and and so um um I have applied this uh in
	26:13
	talks in in in in burland and lower Austria where I have these Street Villages and they are the most dull
	26:21
	environment that you could imagine originally all the Farms extend a lot to the backyard they have a very narrow
	26:28
	front side maybe 10 12 M or 15 M and It Go 400 meters to the back with all the
	26:34
	agricultural things and that is a that is a very popular Village type also in Hungary and and so on but uh but I I saw
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	the potential of this uh of this [Music]
	26:49
	um element of of of adding a public access to the to the to the work that is
	26:56
	done behind you know and and and immediately these D Villages would turn
	27:02
	into uh into an enjoyable environment know so so this this this you could even
	27:09
	you could even build on existing Village types and uh make small changes and
	27:15
	would be a totally different feeling so that that uh yeah
	27:23 ˧

Back to Global Village Conference and the Mothercity idea

	and yeah the next thing that that I have to say is that I wanted to use the fact
	27:31
	that we that we are in the Vienna City Hall uh where I brought I brought Tony
	27:38
	there I brought people from mayorca there uh the winners uh I I I brought
	27:44
	the people from Richard Rogers partnership there Michelle mosesian and
	27:50
	so on you know it was it was really it was really
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	the time of my life you know I could I could really manage to to to uh to to
	28:02
	get subsidies to to invite people um many many more names Charlie
	28:09
	Granton Jack Ms you name it um and and
	28:15
	uh then I had the idea maybe I should uh I
	28:23
	should emphasize a little bit on the fact that Vienna and as uh a
	28:30
	city it was once it was in the top 10 of the world in in in in size but it fell
	28:36
	down to rank 254 or what what what what what is it now I don't know but I began
	28:45
	to write articles for the for the Vienna City Planning magazine and I said cities
	28:50
	don't have to grow they can Network yeah and and um and I had the idea that it
	28:57
	this it is maybe a strategy for the uh for the future conscience City to become
	29:05
	a mother City actually the term mother City uh is for me we have this German
	29:12
	term fand yeah the oh I see right notorious Fatherland yes Fatherland yeah
	29:19
	and so for me this uh this idea was to confront the Fatherland with the mother
	29:25
	City and the mother city is a nurturing caring giving entity it is it
	29:32
	is generous it it has absorbed all the people from the countryside and now it's
	29:38
	spreading back into the countryside I always said we will not we will not
	29:43
	manage this change to the global Villages world without active
	29:49
	participation of the large cities themselves you they they they they are
	29:55
	like like nodes in the network you know they're like connect points so um why
	30:01
	not try to convince them to be part of a new game to be uh to be uh essentially a
	30:09
	Knowledge Center we had we had this wonderful uh British knowledge Economist Richard Knight who who talked about the
	30:17
	real strengths of a city is the inherent knowledge and the knowledge base so we
	30:22
	absorbed also this idea into the conference from the very beginning I think and uh and uh so uh the idea that
	30:32
	the knowledge base now can be shared this this this was this was very
	30:37
	important uh um the city becomes a hub for the decentralization of the world
	30:45
	that that that was my big hope at that time and yeah um then there was a kind
	30:55
	of sort of sharp shift in the in the business world and
	31:04
	uh what I said before about uh the cooperation that vanished you know the
	31:11
	the the every everybody was every company uh was uh who had arrangement
	31:19
	with other companies was considered evil no you must not talk to your competitors
	31:24
	you know this is like the the the the British col business code of honor we don't talk to
	31:31
	our competitors you know that this this and this uh this was with a with the austrians joining the European Union and
	31:39
	and and all this this was rapidly spreading and it was suddenly impossible
	31:47
	to get uh to get a strategic cooperation even then at that time uh and uh the
	31:53
	next Global Village was already a kind of sort of pure Marketplace yeah
	32:01 ˧

Global Village 96 and 97 / ECTF 96 and The problematique of Telework

	1996 we we we decentralized Global Village into uh into 24 little
	32:09
	conferences about different subjects and and uh I I in 1997 I tried for the last
	32:17
	time to to draw together a Visionary group but uh but it
	32:26
	was it was very hard in the meantime we organized the European Community
	32:32
	telework Forum in Vienna that was happened also in 1996 uh and uh and
	32:40
	uh I saw that uh the whole Tork issue was not
	32:47
	really um was not really something that that would would get people emotional you
	32:54
	know and we we also see it now uh that in the moment you lose the contact to
	33:00
	your colleagues at work you are isolated and this this is a frustration that that
	33:05
	this that is uh kind of sort of underlying um feeling emotion in this
	33:13
	whole field uh so so uh Tork is uh is is
	33:19
	is we had Eric Britton who is also an English guy who was uh who
	33:28
	was saying a lot of uh uh unpleasant truths about Tork as a harbinger of the
	33:36
	dissolution of the of the work environment you know um and
	33:42
	uh so when
	33:48
	things happened once again in in in in
	33:53
	1997 um we had we had this where we were interested in architecture and and and gal where
	34:01
	this phase where we were interested in Tork and then uh something new happened ˧

Global Village 97 - Kim Veltman

	34:08
	uh at the at the at the at the third Global Village in 1997 um I think the most important uh
	34:16
	thing and most impactful thing there was a a guy from seens who said we have to do a a session about culture museums and
	34:25
	things like that and uh I had this old acquaintance uh from 1991
	34:31
	European training technology event uh a Dutch guy named Kim
	34:36
	feltman uh and uh um I had had several encounters with him
	34:44
	uh and he he he he tried to build up in Europe uh he was he was a student of
	34:51
	mclan in Toronto and he tried to build up a European uh mclan Institute and he also
	34:58
	came to Vienna back and forth and uh and uh we had we had some talks especially
	35:07
	after his appearance in the conference you know I invited him to give a speech and he had this uh he had this
	35:15
	uh vision of he was an art historian basically he studied the warbook
	35:21
	Institute he was an encyclopedia he was a renaissance man who knew everything
	35:26
	about uh about the the history of art and culture no he he had his
	35:32
	back his view backwards but he told me or he taught me that uh the the the the
	35:40
	he he was very interested in technology but from the point of view that the technology had the capacity to absorb
	35:48
	the qualities of the past and bring it into the future and that was like a that
	35:55
	was like an eye opener for me that uh that uh the real uh the real uh
	36:02
	strength of of of of of Technology would be to to get the best out of the of the
	36:10
	past and and give it a new uh body yeah
	36:16
	and so he had this system of universal media searching and uh and uh when uh we had
	36:25
	this uh we had this conference in 1997 um there was
	36:31
	already this uh how should you say gold digger mentality of the corporations
	36:37
	which were now in Fierce competition you know and they had look for new fields of business and so on and so on about uh
	36:44
	cultural assets you know so that uh suddenly the subject was the pro
	36:51
	priorization the intellectual property uh of pieces of Art and and the that you
	36:58
	that you can uh license it and you are you own the rights and things like that
	37:03
	a very a very uh weird development that that exploded in this time and Kim was
	37:12
	uh to my surprise he was uh against this
	37:19
	development you know he was uh was very much rooted in in the idea that uh every
	37:26
	good artist is stealing ideas from other artists and and so to say we are all
	37:32
	connected with standard the shoulders of giants and and uh what really really uh
	37:38
	fascinated me was how the heat in the conference room
	37:45
	suddenly Rose you know it it it it was it was the most it was the most uh
	37:53
	Lively session of of all this of all this uh Village
	37:58
	97 sessions workshops about about culture art and education
	38:05
	so um I suddenly saw that there might be a new Artic point for Global Villages
	38:13
	and uh and together with Kim um I I thought thought a lot about how can we
	38:21
	how can we create a different Vision to this fragmentation and propriate Iz
	38:27
	ation of knowledge and U and so he had this idea of a universal uh system of um
	38:37
	how should I say connecting everything to everything in a meaningful way like uh he he had
	38:44
	developed this this uh this interface which was starting with very simple
	38:50
	questions like a journalist who when uh where why and how something like
	38:57
	that you know and uh and uh and bringing this on 10 different levels from
	39:02
	kindergarten to University and things like that and um so suddenly this became
	39:10
	for me obvious that we I I have to think about this uh how should I say um this
	39:19
	uh nucleus that that contains the information a global village is a global
	39:26
	village because there is a strong strong access point to Global
	39:31
	Information ˧
 

Retreat 1995 and the peace Village story

	um in 1995 after the after
	39:38
	the second conference um I went with three of my speakers for a two week Retreat we were
	39:45
	invited by a guy named Gerhard Burger in in in in V FAL who had a very very uh strong
	39:53
	Vision in Austria there is a there is a uh a remainder of the of the of the of
	40:01
	the Nazi German past which is a military uh training ground of enormous size for
	40:09
	Austria it is 100 square kilometers in the heart of lower Austria it is the
	40:16
	trat and uh and this and this guy whom I met uh uh in 93 already and and with
	40:25
	whom I became friend um he he was very interested in my work and he said uh you
	40:31
	know that U that uh I'm working there to
	40:36
	transform half of this of this military training ground into a peace Village and
	40:43
	and uh and so uh we had a lot of talks and he he described this peace
	40:49
	Village um and uh and he gave me again
	40:55
	uh he gave me a kind of imagery that was very compelling you know he in the
	41:01
	center of the village there is a a lake and in the lake there is a there is a
	41:06
	building which is like a dome a round building but half of it is underneath the water so uh um and what is this
	41:16
	building all about this building is a place where you where you get an answer
	41:22
	like where you have any you can bring any stupid questions you get the best answers in the world because it is
	41:29
	inhabited by Specialists who retrieve information from all over the world and
	41:35
	uh and in his vision you know it was so was so interesting he said but you have
	41:41
	to under enter underneath the water because the whole structure of the
	41:47
	knowledge of the world it's a globe actually uh the the the the lower part
	41:52
	building underneath the water is that you go from unconscious conscious to uh metac
	41:59
	conscious to to it was very interesting so you have to know yourself yeah so
	42:06
	when you enter this thing then uh you go through like a like a purification and confrontation with
	42:14
	your with your desires wishes and so on and so on so and then you come to the to
	42:20
	the horizontal plane when there where there is all fields of knowledge and
	42:26
	then you become you go up like in the double helix and down um and and on the
	42:32
	upper levels there are these Visions this uh spiritual aspirations and
	42:38
	everything give meaning to the whole thing you know and so you know this this
	42:43 ˧

Global Village defined by Knowledge & Culture Center

	this this idea that a village has a center which is like a
	42:48
	church but it is basically functional Library a multimedia library or a a kind
	42:56
	of sort of information room uh reference room if you wish yeah uh that resonated
	43:02
	with Kim Veltman and uh and uh uh
	43:08
	suddenly my whole attention shifted to this idea how can we how can we uh not
	43:16
	only uh give Villages a gal or how can we do work from the village but how can
	43:21
	we create this this sphere of knowledge that would really uh that would really
	43:26
	create a knowledge base to solve all problems locally so uh and uh the first thing I
	43:35
	asked who is going to to write this uh this whole who is going to author this
	43:42
	this system of universal media search in and and Kim who who had a lot of
	43:48
	political discussions with me he said didn't you tell me that uh 80% of people
	43:55
	uh will lose their jobs in the future because of automation so
	44:01
	um yes on one side people lose their jobs but on the other side there is an
	44:07
	undone labor of connecting bits and pieces of information in a meaningful way and that is in a
	44:14
	way uh a monastic occupation uh it's it's a parallel to
	44:20
	the old monasteries that that transported the books from and they copied the books manually
	44:27
	and they they they they condensed knowledge and things like that they wrote
	44:33
	Sumas condensations of of of things like and they they gave culture to Regions so
	44:41
	why don't we reimagine monies of the 21st century like Hesse did in his GL Beed
	44:48
	game and uh and uh and try to
	44:53
	uh to uh
	44:59
	have them unite the world in a decentralized way no that that that means uh care for
	45:07
	the for the for the knowledge base that makes it possible for each Community to
	45:15
	really be self-reliant I love that you know and
	45:20 ˧

The Mljet Challenge

	then at the same time comes a call from uh uh dubnik where I spent all my
	45:28
	summers at my auntie's house in in my childhood and there is an island South
	45:34
	of du brnik no north of dnik sorry an island which is a natural
	45:40
	National Park and there is an old Monastery and it is contested and the
	45:46
	the the the the the regional planning officer uh issued a call for for help to
	45:54
	Austria's uh friends of Croatia and one of them
	46:00
	was a member of Parliament and a friend of mine sits in his office as his secretary and this friend uh is very
	46:08
	familiar with the global village idea has an island in the Philippines brother Island his name is Alfred H and so
	46:15
	Alfred says Franz we should do something about this Monastery in
	46:21
	Croatia and U and Kim says yes uh um it
	46:28
	it still belongs to the church and I think it is just fair that that we don't
	46:34
	contest the church but on the other side um I have a I have a friend who is uh
	46:40
	who is a a member a high member of the church with very revolutionary ideas
	46:47
	that was Father John ory Mills um uh
	46:53
	Dominican and Mystic you know he was he was uh he was uh in the in the board of
	47:00
	editors of the ma eart society and uh teim just said this is
	47:05
	the right man for the job let's let's think about creating a a monastery of
	47:10
	the 21st century uh and uh the the the Member of Parliament said okay I will
	47:16
	take care of the of the money I will ask the bank of Austria to give a donation
	47:21
	and we had this high level diplomacy and we traveled to to Du brnik and we
	47:26
	traveled to yet and uh I talked to the to the bishop of D and I laid out the
	47:33
	idea we made a film about it and uh and that was like the most beautiful dream I
	47:39
	ever had in my life you know this area is like you are a thousand years in the past this is a this the monaster is on
	47:46
	an island in a lake a green brilliant Green Lake uh in internally enclosed by
	47:53
	the by the shores of the of the of the island and on the outside there is this
	47:58
	blue sea and uh and everything although the whole uh the
	48:06
	whole area of dalmia is is is very very
	48:11
	uh poor in trees everything's full with trees you know so it is it's like a like
	48:16
	a treasure there and it's like a like a dream landscape and uh so we really went
	48:23
	there and that was uh that was one thing that strengthened this idea that uh
	48:30
	Global Villages need this also this new types of of supportive institutions
	48:37
	monasteries and so on to be able to to to deal with the with a complexity of
	48:43
	the knowledge that they have to
	48:50
	digest uh and U in the meantime we uh we
	48:55
	had this problem that uh my aspirations were not in line were
	49:02
	not aligned with uh the purpose of the city of Vienna anymore I was like a I
	49:07
	was like a [Music] yeah I was like a a person that that
	49:15
	that had outdated Visions you know I was like a relict of of of something that we
	49:20
	had taught five years ago but which was not up to date anymore so uh they tried
	49:26
	to to get rid of me and um and U in 1998
	49:33
	the Global Village
	49:38
	Conference did not happen anymore and uh and also I had no role in in there so I
	49:46
	looked for a new a new environment ˧
 

CULTH

	and there was this Museum of Modern Art in
	49:52
	Palais Liechtenstein and there was this director or director he was I think a marketing
	49:57
	person uh who who invited me to do a kind of global village in this beautiful
	50:03
	beautiful fantastic Liechtenstein with its 20
	50:10
	Metter High Barack rooms with full with uh with
	50:16
	paintings and so on and so on and he he said we can bring a European Union
	50:22
	presidency event and we called it cultural heritage in the global village and and of course Kim was The Mastermind
	50:29
	and I I I was one of the of the organizers and uh so we had this we had
	50:37
	really shifted again to this culture education
	50:42
	Paradigm uh publicly and and uh and uh of course uh all these things um kind of
	50:52
	sort of uh they they they went different ways
	50:59
	because everybody was wanting to dig in the Gold Mine four years later I I
	51:05
	created the second cult cult age conference contesting the idea that uh
	51:12
	that knowledge becomes intellectual property or that art becomes intellectual property and U again in
	51:19
	2002 te helped me to to uh develop a theory of digital media that was based
	51:25
	on the fact that digital media inherently cooperative and uh and uh you
	51:32
	are crippling them if you if you if you impose intellectual property on them you
	51:38
	know but uh okay anyway this uh this whole thing we
	51:45
	had uh we had bad luck uh that father Mills had a stroke in my hotel and the
	51:52
	the the whole project broke down and also our later attempts to revive it were not very
	51:59
	fruitful ˧
 

The Shift of 1999 and the Emerging of Our Collaboration

	so again there was a paradigm shift I became also very sick uh and I I
	52:06
	had to take over the hotel and I said okay so I need uh now to to to
	52:14
	partner with people who are really uh in the business of of changing Villages and
	52:20
	uh and uh the the next thing was that we worked closer with the lower Austrian
	52:27
	Village renewal and uh and that uh brought us eventually into several EU
	52:35
	projects and one the first big one was ERDE and that was exactly after we met
	52:44
	so uh um we we had this Grundtvig uh European rural development by means
	52:53
	of Education that was the acronym and uh and that that is the reason why
	52:59
	all these things FL flow together in this uh in this uh New Concept of uh
	53:06
	studying especially the the the the information and and uh and learning part
	53:12
	of global Villages what does stand for I forget European Rural Dvelopment by
	53:19
	means of education and uh we met at 2003 ˧
 


	I was
	53:25
	attending a Blog Talk conference it was just when blogs had started and I managed to get a travel Grant to uh give
	53:31
	a talk there we all stayed at the hotel kinof your family Hotel uh and it was
	53:37
	emphasized you know what a Visionary person you are and then uh we really clicked um and you gave me uh uh ideas
	53:48
	for traveling through the Balkans of what you call the El Camino Real that you envisioned between I think Athens
	53:55
	and Greece so you talked about Samos you talked about Greece and I think your heart is always concerned with all the
	54:01
	conflicts that were happening in the Balkans was L to the to the whole peace Village stuff you know that in the peace
	54:07
	Village yeah that that that that Austria was on the boundary of all these wars uh
	54:14
	and so that you had a practical way to respond to that and uh then I had the
	54:19
	chance I think maybe like you saying maybe a year or two later to um uh get
	54:24
	in you know get involved with ER and so the next time I saw you um I said
	54:32
	um well I'd like to organize a working group around you as a person you know to
	54:40
	try to help because you are such a networker you know to try to um connect with your Visions but I said what would
	54:47
	we call this Yahoo group and you said well we could call it ER you know like that's because that was a very important project for you and I said absolutely
	54:54
	not you know I'm not going to invest my life in some European you know project that is just um made up you know
	55:01
	fictional so tell me you know what do you really care I can invest myself in you you know and so then you said well
	55:08
	Global Villages so we ended up calling it the global Villages working group and that's why we're here today so that's
	55:15
	how our paths crossed so that's I interject myself and that was interesting uh uh I think uh we had uh a
	55:25
	was was was very special uh also because we we made some very nice creative
	55:34
	acquaintances especially remember our polish partner was of e uh he was in uh
	55:43
	in the north of Poland in in in a contested area where the U uh I think
	55:51
	German population was was thrown out or what whatever you know it was like an
	55:57
	era without history and he um he imagined uh that Villages would would
	56:05
	grow on certain narratives like a hobbit Village or things like that and uh and
	56:10
	that was very interesting to see that a village can be can be uh constituted by
	56:18
	a basic idea of course I knew that from I knew that already from the intentional communities in America but but here you
	56:25
	have a myth or a narrative which is not just a product of a of a person's Vision
	56:32
	but which is which is already something in the general mind of the society like do or whatever you know and so and so
	56:41
	the idea that each Village has a theme uh and around this theme uh it can
	56:46
	develop a special culture that's what what I think was one of the big learnings in in
	56:55
	ed that's the one I remember most and the
	57:02
	Lithuanian Monastery where uh where we spent some
	57:07
	time yeah so that uh that we had done a
	57:13
	second and third project but but this this uh how should I say uh it
	57:20
	was there were so many things going on simultaneously I have my project list in
	57:25
	this very long you know created another important U meeting that
	57:31 ˧

ECOVAST

	I had was was with ar spigler who is uh who was the founder or ref founder I
	57:39
	should say of East Austria and eoas was a European Council of villages and small towns it's a it's
	57:46
	a it's an organization which has a 40 years history of really caring for Rural
	57:53
	environments and and it is organization which is not academic but which is an
	58:00
	amateure institution you know people care about I don't know old churches or things like that like uh we had we had
	58:10
	a a Scottish person in Germany uh who who who was especially interested in Old
	58:17
	churches in The Villages and things like that so uh and arur was brilliant
	58:23
	because he wrote a book on cultural landscapes in Austria and I said this is a person that I have
	58:30
	to uh to work with because uh because he is very very much aware of the realities
	58:37
	of of of of rural areas knows everything from the Wilderness to the small town
	58:44
	you know uh the whole Spectrum uh and rural areas are not just Villages they
	58:50
	are they are like a network of of smaller settlements of farms and and and
	58:56
	and even small towns or medium towns and uh we did uh we did a conference on the
	59:02
	small towns on a small town in in in in white Hoven and I was again uh bringing
	59:10
	in the subject of uh the how should I say the the new
	59:15
	potential of a small town as a a regional uh portal to the world as kind
	59:23
	of sort of uh The Entity that is able to interface with the mother City and things like that so the the the the
	59:30
	whole uh image became more and more concrete ˧
 

OEKONUX and the Open Source Paradigm

	right on the other side there
	59:35
	was a political development at that time which was also very interesting um that
	59:41
	was eono uh there was a group in Germany uh that
	59:48
	uh was uh half involved in in in Information Technology half in in
	59:54
	politics and they said we have no clear idea and this this is this is relating back to the to the
	1:00:00
	issue of Marxism and communism we have no clear idea or we have no clear idea
	1:00:06
	how how our future will look like oh the only thing we know is that uh it will
	1:00:14
	not be as as a traditional Communists uh assumed it will not be a centralized
	1:00:21
	planning economy and it will not be a dictatorship of the 
        work class which is in fact a dictatorship on
	1:00:28
	the working class um by Elite but uh we
	1:00:34
	need to to to look at living and working examples of a different kind of
	1:00:42
	economy and why not find it in the example of free software yeah this this this this whole
	1:00:49
	idea of uh free software as a social system with its role is maintaining
	1:00:56
	contributors and things like that U which also Bridges to the commercial world but it it's in its core it's
	1:01:03
	non-commercial which is a very interesting new phenomenon communitybased software development
	1:01:09
	Hardware development things like that so that all emerged at the same time and it
	1:01:15
	it it also contributed to the to the to
	1:01:21
	the the fine-tuning to the to the differentiation and to the to the complexity of the global religious
	1:01:27
	Vision you know so um here we had this this lead idea that we had to bring
	1:01:33
	together with the other ideas that uh that we we we need to to study and apply
	1:01:40
	uh the the the the culture of free software and create an economy that
	1:01:47
	works around giving everything away and I I remember that you wrote an article
	1:01:53
	with that with that title at that uh at that point in time and that was also
	1:01:59
	something that that BW us together maybe you say a little bit
	1:02:04
	about that well maybe just in the spirit of
	1:02:10
	networking so Jesus uh said you know give everything away and uh I was living
	1:02:16
	at the home of my brother uh David Ellison Bay um in one of the most distraught neighborhoods in Chicago he
	1:02:22
	was a former uh Grand Sheik the mo Science Temple of America so it was very
	1:02:29
	exciting uh staying at his home living with him and um I had the opportunity to
	1:02:34
	apply for um a conference in uh India Bangalore organized by these uh young um
	1:02:43
	graduate students um they had created this think cycle in MIT media lab where
	1:02:50
	the idea was uh and the conference was called development by Design so that how
	1:02:55
	could people people around the world be contributing their design ideas uh to help the developing world and so I uh
	1:03:03
	wrote a uh essay and David uh co-authored it with me uh an economy for
	1:03:08
	giving everything away and so I want a travel Grant to this conference in India
	1:03:13
	uh but then the remarkable thing what and so I also looked at the open source movement and Etc but I gave a
	1:03:18
	philosophical argument like you know what happens practically when you start to give everything away and how that
	1:03:25
	gives different principles uh that um instead of trying to maximize happiness
	1:03:31
	as in classical economics you minimize anxiety and so uh you say well and how
	1:03:37
	can you fit in to the I think like this is a theme of years you know how can you uh not destroy the existing world but
	1:03:42
	fit in with the existing world so the existing world is has a market economy so for the middle things in life that
	1:03:48
	maybe works fine but for the little things in life why should I be fighting over every little thing you give it away
	1:03:56
	I don't want to fight right and then why should I let the market decide about the big things in my life I'm not going to
	1:04:02
	make the big you know let the market decide where I eat lunch I don't care where I eat lunch but the big things and little things you minimize anxiety you
	1:04:10
	know and you decide I will make my decisions about those things and so you can fit into the world with that
	1:04:15
	different mindset so this paper um had the effect in Silicon Valley that this
	1:04:21
	uh high school student chrisina read it he liked it he remembered it and then he
	1:04:26
	started u with his friends the bar Camp movement and um they said this was
	1:04:33
	influenced by this paper so the barcamp mov was a movement of unconferences but even maybe more remarkable um just as
	1:04:40
	Twitter was starting he started the hashtag which has been the source of many social movements you know from me
	1:04:47
	too to stop the steel to it goes on and on the Arab Spring and so he said that
	1:04:53
	this paper the idea that you should not trademark you know Twitter was trying to trademark the hashtag And he as the
	1:05:00
	originator he fought against that and he said no this is something that uh uh should belong to everybody and so kind
	1:05:08
	of in your spirit like if you have a conceptual argument that can participate in the
	1:05:14
	public debate it can maybe swing things in a certain direction and so we could have lived in a world without a hashtag
	1:05:20
	you know and so uh you and me and all like this is one example uh where
	1:05:26
	that gave some fruit that people don't know about but also just emphasize like this really is coming from Jesus so when
	1:05:32
	Donald Trump uses the hashtag let's say uh he can give thanks to Jesus um who uh
	1:05:38
	helped to make that possible ˧

Summarizing

	1:05:44
	yeah okay I think uh we have managed to do a little bit more than an hour I think uh so there's probably will be
	1:05:52
	time for part three or part four thank you uh France and um maybe
	1:05:58
	just to say uh I'm working already uh we had 20 or 30 more ways of figuring
	1:06:04
	things out today I might not list them all but I'll um diagram them um starting
	1:06:11
	to fit them together into a system I think though uh what I'm suspecting um
	1:06:16
	uh in listening to you is that the start of it probably comes from your desire uh
	1:06:22
	not to overlook any perspective you know so this idea that really like there's
	1:06:27
	this Comm over not to overlook any meaningful perspective this is this is
	1:06:32
	the problem you know that you you you are confronted with a million perspectives and then
	1:06:39
	there are 10 20 40 really important uh
	1:06:45
	fruitful perspectives so that that you should not Overlook and so then you have
	1:06:52
	this uh very interesting split I think um you know this is all very preliminary
	1:06:57
	tentative but on the one hand um you really appreciate like you said the
	1:07:02
	meaningful ones so you really appreciate like Elite thinkers inspiring thinkers you really gravitate toward like you'll
	1:07:09
	come and you'll you'll do these U pilgrimages you know to D ELO part or you know that you mention many people
	1:07:15
	who you really appreciate and love on the other hand uh you'll talk to anybody you know so and you'll make friends with
	1:07:22
	anybody and you'll uh you'll find meaning in anybody know you'll look for that meaning everywhere so that's uh so
	1:07:29
	one of the ways I like just bumbling around like you know you came to some of
	1:07:34
	the things many of the things that you uh came up with um came from just bumbling around and accidentally being
	1:07:41
	somewhere so like if you think of Life as a biology where there these chemical
	1:07:46
	processes part of it is that you're going down some gradient you know you know where you want to go sometimes but
	1:07:52
	part of it is you're just bumbling around and things are happening to you because you're in oce so maybe to say
	1:07:57
	like just like a global village is supposed to be a center for some particular meaning but you're also we
	1:08:04
	talked about these learning paths you know where you're traveling around maybe maybe purposefully maybe aimlessly or
	1:08:09
	maybe just uh coincidentally or you're meeting other fellow Travelers so those
	1:08:14
	would be like the two pre-systemic ways like before you even have a global village you have these um uh
	1:08:23
	attitudes and they should be linked with a uh three cycle like a learning
	1:08:28
	cycle and I suspect what I'm hearing from you like this learning cycle partly
	1:08:33
	you're very sensitive to intellectual atmosphere so whether it's uh Missing like you know it's depressing in the
	1:08:40
	city or you know there's something unhuman right or it could be um the
	1:08:46
	excitement of the conference in Vienna you know where like things are just or or it could be like a technological
	1:08:51
	place like Silicon Valley like or it could be the beauty of nature but you have this uh Attunement to the
	1:08:57
	atmosphere and then um somehow you tried to um pull up maybe some kind of
	1:09:04
	conceptual Vision you know like this gives you a vision of how things could be maybe maybe it's because those
	1:09:10
	atmospheres are so fleeing but you would like to structure things in a more permanent tangible
	1:09:16
	way and then you kind of like see the reality like well where that uh you know
	1:09:22
	maybe you just see where that leads you like you know then that gives you a mission to go somewhere I think so then you go travel you have this concrete
	1:09:29
	Vision you go off traveling networking you you basically Network and then the
	1:09:35
	the ending up of the network is either you pull together a conference or you uh end up invited to a conference or you in
	1:09:41
	you go to some you find that special place where you have that atmosphere again you have something new to inspire
	1:09:47
	to further your vision so you have this cycle that's connecting uh the bumbling around and
	1:09:54
	then that uh home or that nucleus that Center and this is this learning cycle
	1:09:59
	and so then where does that lead you and I it would it has to lead you to
	1:10:05
	the most important thing uh and I probably don't know what that is but something about these Global Villages
	1:10:10
	and then you have the systemic uh notion like to say okay well what's the algebra
	1:10:16
	of putting a global village together and so it could be arguing uh publicly
	1:10:22
	participating in these debates you know figuring out what we need a concept so a lot of the arguments conceptual it could
	1:10:27
	be like an image like you know that we need to uh have an image that will convey things so there should be like
	1:10:34
	six different ways uh there should be like four levels and six ways of connecting those levels and that's the whole system and so Global villages in a
	1:10:41
	certain sense um is this um it's really just a tangible shadow of this
	1:10:48
	conceptual ideal uh uh world of Concepts
	1:10:53
	that people live in that kind of help to connect them and then finally somehow
	1:10:58
	it's yielding some kind of U maybe just a shared um shared vision of integration
	1:11:05
	you know shared appreciation for people something like that so this is like the overall mental sketch I don't know if
	1:11:10
	you have thoughts on that yeah yeah the the how should I say the actual World
	1:11:17
	situation is the biggest challenge that I ever faced you know because we are now in an age where geopolitics is finally
	1:11:25
	laying out to the very last consequence which is war MH and uh and
	1:11:32
	uh actually nobody could can still
	1:11:37
	imagine how we can work without uh these entities that that Force us to take part
	1:11:44
	in Wars you know so recently I had this radio program and
	1:11:50
	I quoted some in my in my mail to the math for wisdom list um that uh that the
	1:11:58
	there is the the bottom line which our age
	1:12:08
	uh how should I say uh opens to the to the to the viewer of the
	1:12:15
	future is that again we have not manag to create a
	1:12:20
	world in which you can freely decide uh about your own future you are
	1:12:26
	an an instrument of uh of the power that uh if you are young and strong enough if
	1:12:34
	you're able to fight that draws you and and here you go you you have to die for
	1:12:41
	somebody else's purpose so this this this is this is something that is the
	1:12:48
	challenge you know uh how can we imagine a world where this is absolutely
	1:12:53
	impossible where a world where there is no big Powers uh
	1:13:00
	that can that can subjugate individuals where the individual is free
	1:13:05
	to move and there is a kind of minimum Global consensus that makes it work so
	1:13:12
	this this minimum Global consensus is everybody has a share of this planet or
	1:13:17
	these Villages are like uh like the cells of a body and uh each each cell uh
	1:13:25
	manages its own Survival and and shape and yet they they strive to become an
	1:13:33
	ecosystem uh of mutual support and cooperation and that is that is that is
	1:13:39
	something that I think it's the biggest idea worldwide to to pursue I just
	1:13:45
	received a incredible message that I I I published in stri magazine an article
	1:13:51
	about global Villages and just received a message some says that's the most
	1:13:57
	meaningful article in this whole thick uh issue and I want to translate it to
	1:14:02
	Italian language oh wonderful uh so that is B that is giving me some kind of hope
	1:14:09
	but and so it's great to uh I'm just fascinated to be back U connecting with
	1:14:15
	you I hope that will continue through math for wisdom I hope our viewers and listeners appreciate you uh and all the
	1:14:22
	possibilities uh in Your Vision in your person um I think of the two minds uh the three
	1:14:29
	Minds let's say but uh just like we talked in the other session but you really have this
	1:14:36
	um emphasis about the physical presence you know that like that there's a physical world where you physically
	1:14:43
	experience that atmosphere let's say that intellectual atmosphere whether it's walking through cafes or whether
	1:14:48
	it's uh being in a conference or whether it's uh walking down a Village Street let's say but um or but
	1:14:56
	so that you have this physical presence but then you have this whole conceptual world and somehow uh the global Villages
	1:15:04
	is uh in parallel with both of these you know that the that they're supporting each other in some very uh human way
	1:15:12
	yeah um and and then there's a third mind I would think is like the Consciousness
	1:15:17
	that somehow that somehow lines them up and then chooses which one to go with at at whatever
	1:15:23
	opportunity so we have that um uh we have the like you say uh maybe this is
	1:15:30
	where your system leads to like this whole challenge of taking responsibility for our world uh you know in a in a
	1:15:36
	Federated uh I mean in a well in a decentralized way let's say in a in a common a human um way and the stakes are
	1:15:45
	very high with um just the development of artificial intelligence uh and the
	1:15:51
	the weakness of humanity you know that hum Humanity by Nature is just so uh weak that um uh spiritually that people
	1:16:00
	are um they cater to systems uh they don't
	1:16:06
	uh they allow themselves to be used by systems uh We've created this world where so much of everything is digitized
	1:16:13
	and available for uh abuse let's say and um we've created all this system of
	1:16:20
	interests that can work against us um so it's wonderful to realize how vibrant uh
	1:16:28
	and uh enticing uh is the visions that you have been developing your whole life
	1:16:33
	and I think the point being that as evident by the Cornucopia of
	1:16:39
	ideas you have that your whole life you've been bringing together uh these fruits from various people and the Deep
	1:16:45
	appreciation what for what people are contributing whether they're Elite thinkers or whether they're you know uh
	1:16:52
	typical uh people uh ordinary people but that you're able to absolutely find
	1:16:57
	meaningful things everywhere bring them together and say this is how we could be living let's keep uh developing this
	1:17:03
	Vision so that's my prayer to thank God for you uh to ask for your health your
	1:17:09
	uh good spirits and your strength to and that we can work together thank you thank you very much
	1:17:16
	Andreas enjoyed it very much thank you ˧